Here at Oreo's we have been transfering old VHS tapes to DVD format the past few days. It's always fun to look back and see where you've been, and anticipate the next adventure. Our dear Hawk is on so many tapes and he was a part of our life for 9 years til cancer took him. Unpredictable and perhaps not a puppy that should have made it to market; he remains deeply loved and the source of much writing on Oreo's blog.We got him from a person in Dayton who supposedly was selling the litter for a " sick friend" in Portland Oregon. If stupid came in a can we would have bought a case I suppose..... Of course the sick friend in Portland was a mass producer who distributed through private parties in cities across the west. He was an adorable puppy in horrid conditions, living with his litter mates is a stinking crate in a dark garage. Every warning sign was there, yet we brought him home anyway. I think about the only thing right was, he came forward across the box to us. Once home he grew quickly and became beautiful. But..... having raised and worked with GSD's for 30 years I knew he was different in his reactions to other animals. He taught me more than any normal dog ever could have. The cats never cuddled with him like they did all the other dogs, and by 4 months people were asking me to keep him from playing with their dog at the parks.
In case you haven't figured it out, this post is about nature vs. nurture. The shelter is full of dogs like our Hawk, dogs that are victims of bad genes. The euphenisms like " needs an experienced owner " or " must be familar with this breed" are unfair to the dog and it's new home. Looking at the 9 years of Hawk video makes it clear you cannot socialize a crazy dog, you can contain his behavior , but you don't change the genes.
Long before his little feet could hit the ground, waiting to finish his course of imunization ; we carried him into new situations. Every neighbor for blocks around knew Hawk, and were eager for playdates when the shots were done. One lovely shepherd was Hawks first friend and as soon as Dr. Janet cleared him for public exposure we headed to Sierra's house. They romped every day, along with other dogs he met on his three times daily walks. At 4 months old, he faced his first rejection. Sierra's owner said " your little pup is really mad, and he's not playing " I knew that, but thought at only 4 months I must be mistaken. Shaken, I took Hawk home and we began a more serious look at his behavior. This was not normal puppy play and the grown dogs sensed it immediately.
We continued the walks and instead of playing with the others on the route we " sat and stayed" while the grown up chatter went on. Perhaps he couldn't play, but he could become a good canine citizen. That was never Hawk's plan..... he didn't want to be bad; he seemed as powerless over his spontaneous rages as we felt. Please, let me clarify, he was never a mean dog. even his vet's thought he was the sweetest dog they knew; but he was defective. He was atypical for his breed, hell he was off the charts for any breed... so what to do ?
We kept Hawk, even when he attacked his " Mom" our older female that raised him. That was the wake up call, I had been telling my husband he was " different" but until it happened in front of him, there was denial. It was instantaneous and vicious, and we were fortunate to not lose Sphinx. From that moment on, for the next 9 years, he was never left unattended with any living creature except us..... He never showed any signs of owner aggression, but did snap at a neighbor, so his world became narrow.
I don't think we are going to see that kind of commitment for these special needs dogs coming out of the shelters currently. Just not going to happen, and we must stop pretending this is all about lack of socialization or love in the young years. Many of these dogs had a normal life and got surrendered when the defective genes took hold. They are time bombs, and yes, the pitties are the most prevalent in the shelters so the numbers will be highest among them. The sheer numbers of Pitbulls in shelter right now is a testament to the problem and they can't all be
" abused" some of these dogs could be contained, but the new owner better damn well know what they are getting....
Oreo enjoys the best of both worlds, sleeping on the porch with the French Doors open..
15 comments:
I saw a Pit puppy that was being fostered by a NHS employee with years and years of experience end up being euthanized at about 9 weeks old due to aggression. I know that seems extreme, but this pup would viciously attack anything that moved. At first everyone thought he was just playing rather roughly, but it soon turned into something much more dreadful when began attacking people's feet and ankles. After being examined by vets and speaking with behavior experts, the Exe. Dir. at NHS decided the best thing to do was end this dog's short life.
PetCop
I've had experiences like petcop's. The dog or cat is born without brakes. They don't know when to stop and become more agitated by their own behavior. We are not accepting animals here that exhibit that behavior during the intake process. Our goal is to get our animals into a permanent home, you are not able to do that with a seriously impaired animal. They will bounce back every time and become unadoptable very quickly. If your goal is to do the greatest good for the greatest number, you have to be realistic. I am monitoring petfinder for several shelters in our 150 perimeter, NHS has had the same stock forever, I think the public would get tired of seeing the same faces. Maybe they count on that, wearing the client down.If they see the same pitbull enough he will start to look like a border collie.
The Newf is doing well in his new home, lots of brushing and a little cutting. The adopter came for several days and visited with him and even brushed to get the feel of real long hair ownership. She had a St. Bernard for many years so she gets the big dog thing. we need all the happy endings we can get.
Happy about the Newf, please tell her about Oreo's and if she gets a question we will do our best to answer it. When you get time, go to Diane Jessups site, the stories about the dogfighters are sickening yet informative. It was a mark of good breeding when the puppies killed each other, the last one left was considered a damn " game" dog. I saw even on the SPCA site they are hiding behind the " be familar with this breed" disclaimer. Seriously folks we do need just a pinch of common sense. Are you still going over there volunteer ? I was wondering what temperment you were seeing.
I am sorry for your Hawk, I don't think I've read his full story before. I do believe if you had him, he was socialized. Vet's often disagree on " sudden rage syndrome" some feel it's an adrenaline or testosterone reaction. I am not in that group. I Animal species, like homo sapiens can experience mental illness. Whether or not they can function in society carries equal weight. That must have been a difficult time for your family and the adjustments the other dog had to make. Euthanasia must have been on the table at times, how did you cope with that ?
Yes, I still drop by the shelter and keep in touch. The dogs I am seeing are being handled a little more cautiously than even a year ago. Shel and I have decided that for liability issues I won't formally bond with dogs anymore, but I will spend time through the gate.
It would be more credible if the fosters or walkers would admit getting nipped. You know it happens once the dogs get out of shelter. Riley and Lucy2 are good for each other and I feel fortuante to have found both of them in a second home situation. There is nothing at the shelters right now that I would introduce to kids or dogs already in the home, sorry but thats the truth. Can you picture some poor animal like Hawk in a shelter ? Shel wants to add more later, so bye.
Hello Greta,
Actually euthanasia was only on the table one time at the age of 5 months when he attacked Sphinx so violently. I felt it was in the best interest of both dogs, rehoming him would never have been an option with his temperment.
My husband wanted to live with it and hope he changed. I knew he was not capable of change, but we were capable of containing his behavior.
When in balance he was absolutely loving and gentle, one of the most affectionate animals I have ever known. But, when the other " Hawk ' came out, it was difficult. he never got the opportunity to put tooth to animal again, and didn't often show an interest in doing so. But, the spontenaity of the eruptions were what made them so dangerous. He was not normally a resource guarding dog and never showed a teritoral strain, just the volcanic deadly eruptions. He was so lovable, when in balance; and terifying when out of control.
Ps. Once reason you don't see a lot of pictures of Hawk is .....Most of the time he didn't like the camera, it put him in that fearful place and sense we didn't know his triggers ( don't think he did either ) we tried not to make him uncomfortable. When he got older it didn't bother him as much and when he was in the mood we got a few shots... Which I will post when the time is right.
The question I would like answered and I know that we have covered this before with no answer. How long is an animal out before it's not a return. How many of these adoptions are really sucessful ? Are fosters counted as adoptions and are animals released to foster intact ? That's my input.
Sheldon,
As far as I know, any animal that is adopted from NHS can be a return no matter how long ago it was adopted. I can't speak for the current adoption contracts, but the old ones made it clear that the animal remained "owned" by NHS.
The return rate is about 30% historically. I think "successful" is in the eye of the beholder.
In the paperwork today, foster animals are considered quasi-adopted as are "rescued" animals. Many of these animals never come back to the shelter. That is one of the purposes of fostering.
Athough state statutes require all animals to be s/n before leaving the shelter, most animals in foster care are not. I can't speak to animals that are "rescued."
The shelters prefer all this remain in a shade of gray.
I think 30% is a low ball guess for the number of pits we have up here. Your area may be different, but we are about 90% pit/mixes in King County.
The Shepherds we have been getting are bite dogs and escape artists. We have a few older ones that are no longer of use to the breeder, although a serious breeder would never dump the retired animal.
When I pull an animal it counts as an adoption, personally I feel it should not be listed that way.
If 30 % of shelter animals go to foster/rescue situations, that skews the adoption numbers.
That is how No Kill likes it, keep the public confused and misinformed. How many fosters end up in " forever" homes ? Not all of them by any stretch of the imagination. I have followed the infamous Gabbs dogs, how come the few that weren't put down are still in foster two years later ? That was a publicity stunt.
I follow Winograds blog and notice he's not shouting about Reno anymore, do you think he saw conditions when he did his evaluation or maybe the separate assessment was bad. Spouse and I are not seeing all the glory in the paper we used to about no kill, maybe the beast is down for the count.
I kicked Shel off the computer. My theory is the three " no kill" places try to band together because they know the truth is getting out and they feel there is safety in numbers. One of my friends who is still at SPCA said the thought process is being driven by BB to bolster support for no kill for everyone to stay alive. Nobody believes NHS made $75,000 for their walk at the Marina and all the crap in the paper about a perfect day, bs. It was cold and rainy and the attendance was small. I was there with Riley scopeing things out. I would love to see some paperwork after expenses and all the costs were covered, but I don't believe it was near that amount. Tom got $5,000 for 5 days in the kennel at the mall. Not even a real number for the walk imho.
I too have noticed the name of our shelter is not being bandied about. I hope it's something to do with the Commission looking into things. Mitch has made a few stupid statements for Mark, but mainly pretty darn quiet.I'll check the Washoe County home page and look for agenda items. It would be under budget cuts for Animal Services.
My dog is exactly like Hawk. Lucky for me, I specialize in this exact type of dog, so your story is quite similar to the ones shared by my clients.
I don't think it's just bad genetics. My dog has wonderful genetics - everything on her checks out and her parents through 6 generations back are all animals with wonderful temperaments whose pups also have good temperaments.
Nature. Nurture. I think it's a combination of the two - it's knowing and understand the genetic package you CAN get and preparing for the worst.
Koda - my pup - would have had to have been put down far before now if she had gone home with ANY other person. She was a total asshole, if you'll pardon my bad language.
Me. The moment I saw a behavior I did not approve of, I intervened and she was NEVER allowed to so much as think of performing that behavior again.
I think you mentioned that you weren't sure about hawk's dog language capabilities?
I wondered about Koda's for a long while. What did I learn? Koda - not saying this applies to Hawk, but it is interesting information - KNOWS AND UNDERSTANDS 100% of dog language. She chooses to ignore all attempts at communication unless it's what she wants, and gets pissed when she doesn't get her way.
By choosing to refuse to respect the other dog's signals, she forfeits her right to play with them.
We learned that she knows the language because when we took this option away from her, she suddenly started to respect and play appropriately.
My dog... wants to be a brat.
Too bad for her that it never gets her anywhere.
Also, like I said in my blog... I know she'll bite someone if she feels the need to do so... So, I do what I feel is necessary to prevent that. It's all about prevention, management, and training to us.
It's interesting that you are getting clients like Hawk and Koda. Are they from breeders, shelters even neighbors ? Very quickly, about 20 years ago we had a lovely bitch who was doing quite well in the ring, Major Kennel, ROM in recent history. Top of the top. As a matter of fact she took reserve winners bitch at 8 months. Shortly after that she went after my 9 month old niece who was crawling across the floor about 15' feet away. Prior to this ( 4 month's earlier ) she had attacked our Collie upon returning from a run back east with her handler.
I thought raging hormones and contacted the breeder, she was on co-ownership. Put it on the line, we can spay the dog or you can prepare a place for her she is coming home to you. I have no place in my life for an aggressive dog. I sure as hell am not going to breed to a fault. The breeder agreed to the spay and signed off. That was her "G" litter. it was a repeat of an earlier "E" littler where every dog had finished and one male had a taken every show he hit. She thought I was nuts..... until within 5 months every single one of the 8 pups in the litter had become unpredictable. All but Gusty were put down before they were 3 years old. We had Gusty until she was 12. What happened ? Same parents, and in a couple of cases same new owners who had a pup from the "E" litter. In GSD's it will come up if you try to go to dark in the pigment , fine bone, mostly black and they get skittish. Imagine 10 years later when I ended up with Hawk. I have always had 2 or 3 GSD's at a time since 1961, you get pretty familar with breed character when you do that.
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