The last post got pretty long, pretty quick. we can just wander over here and chat as we feel like it...that's pretty much what we do anyway. Oreo may pick a topic, but I 've noticed the group takes it's own course. That is good, we are all thinking individuals and not to fond of following the herd. We've had a bit of splash back about breeders, as always on this blog we want to stay focused. We don't look for easy hooks to blame anyone, we want to be very clear our agenda is the welfare of the animal in custody of a shelter. We don't like jerk owners either, but at some point you have to pick a direction or you become meaninless. Oreo's direction is shelter care for all animals.
According to several studies we have researched, approximately 20% of all shelter animals are purebred, that gentle reader means 80% are not ! If one removes pitbulls from the equation ( follow me closely here ) 85% of the 20% of purebreds are adopted directly into a home, bypassing a rescue or foster. Put the pitbulls back in and the percentage changes dramatically. So purebreds are not a significant drain on the shelter system, so lets go back to the problem. The problem is primarily the " whoops, didn't think they could get preggers this young" group. and the " Everybody wants a puppy from "Bitsy" folks. I love the idea of mandatory S/ N for any animals not under a commercial breeders permit. It is clear ro us here at Oreo's that asking people to use their heads or be responsible, is not working......... Puppymills are terrible places, but that deserves it's own place at the table.
We are about handling animals that are in the system currently. How can we do that with compassion, and when necessary accept that not every animal will find a home. No Kill with the capitals is a flawed concept, if you doubt that read long and hard of what is available. A recent email from NHS to Mark's blog gives the full extent of the hoops you must jump through to surrender your pet. It would be easier to get on Schindlers List.. I am sure Beata believes in what she proposes, Oreo doesn't. Don't take our word for anything, read the rgj.com mostlydogs blog. They want you to "foster" your own surrender while they " help " you find a home. Well guess what, if they have 700 of their own cats hanging out, your guy is pretty far down the list. Same with dog's . It's disheartening to see the owner slink out, cause you know it is not going to be good for the animal, turned away. Mandatory S/N for all shelter release animals is really the only thing that is a long term solution. The only thing, not BSL, not foisting a dog off on some poor schmuck that dropped into Petsmart to buy bird seed and came out with a pitbul. Slow the reproduction process and you reduce the unwanted animals. Fosters are not the answer, they used to be for the" few" ill or troubled pets, now they are factored in, like the music you get when you call the phone company. They need to be returned to their intended purpose. And what the hell are rescues doing these days. No big stories on the paper blog about distant rescues from the Churchill County gang. Snake oil salesmen and robber barons..be gone, you weary us.
Pictured is Miss Priss with her park pouch, tennis ball and small water bottle; and a very trendy dog is ready for the dog park. We are making sure you know that rehomed dogs can do very well.
18 comments:
I don't believe various jurisdictions can legislate owner responsibility or enforce those laws effectively if they existed. Stronger laws regarding this have popped up in locations all around the country and overseas, too. But, it's not working to relieve the problem. We live in a world that thumbs its nose at laws and law enforcement. All one has to do is watch an episode of Jerry Springer to identify half of the typical problem dog owners. The other half tend to be young and/or from black or hispanic backgrounds. I know it's not considered politically correct to be so pointed, but facts are facts. Unless you can effectively address S/N with these groups, you will continue to see the shelters over-run with bully breeds.
Years ago, shelters didn't have an abundance of Pit Bulls, and there is a simple reason for it. Depending on the locale, most Pit Bulls were destroyed along with wolf hybrids when they came into the shelters due to legal liability issues. Over time and thanks to groups like Maddies Fund, San Francisco SPCA, the no kill movement, and pressure from well-intended but misguided rescue groups, the predominate dog in shelters morphed from black Labs to Pits. Pits are the most likely breed to not get S/N unless they pass through a shelter due to the ownership identified above.
NHS was crucified by AC and rescue groups for euthanizing Pits and wolfies. They also refused to use their education budget to address the issue with those that were creating it and preferred to spend it talking to 1st graders. This was a setup for the disaster we have today. It is a "cause and effect" situation.
As for the term "responsible breeder," I think that's in the eye of the beholder. If you want a specific breed badly enough, you will turn an blind eye to the realities of breeding for profit. It's the basis of Business 101--supply and demand.
Amen to that epe, a friend in our area has a dog that at the age of 4 can hardly walk, yet swears by the breeder, says they would go back..why in the name of all that is holy go back to someone who breeds poor dogs.
I do remember the scandal of NHS putting down certain animals, and AC went through that not to long ago when they put down a rottie, it was dangerous and needed to be allowed to leave its tortured existance. In Indiana pitbulls are put down as soon as they enter a shelter, some ( my neice being one, are crying foul ) She says it keeps people like her from turning them in. She has one that she found along the roadway, it has caused grief with the resident dog and yet she won't turn it in to be killed. I sympathize with her plight and know that would be difficult, but Indiana is having a terrible time with dog fighting and the adopted animals are often used as bait or for training pruposes, so releasing them isn't humane either.
I respect Dianne Jessup and her site is fantastic, but I think she addresses about 6% of the pitbull population. They rest have a very unhappy ending. I think stupid people are the cause, always have said that. As for breeders this is a hot button issue, but the term is used to include those who are not really breeders, until that changes and we get the nuts out, we will have no control. If you are not going to make babies why to you object to neutering is always my question to the " rights" morons. About twenty years ago I smoked, and from time to time I would decide to quit. Sucess eluded me for months until I realized the reason I kept a pack in the drawer was in case I wanted to smoke. I was reserving my right to change my mind. I think this is exactly why some folks don't alter the family pet.. A poor mans clone waiting in the wings. Ya know when I smoked the last " in case" pack and didn't buy more, I was done. I think with people who keep an intact pet that is their " in case " thinking. If more people could live with an altered pet, enjoy the change in behavior and not deal with the conseqences that go with the estrus cycle, they would be sold on the idea.
We picked up our new dog today, Riley is a happy camper for the first time since we lost Lucy. There have been several visits and we really liked the dog tremendously. In contacting breeders since we had concerns about ending up with two pit mixes, we heard about a breed specific rescue. That was disappointing because most of the "labs" looked like our Riley. Socks and a blaze with upright ears. Volunteer had looked at the pictures on this blog one time to many, and about 2 weeks ago started asking about rescue Newfies. I was against the idea because as nice as they are they are huge ! We found a breeder on the web in our area and contacted them. The drive was only a couple of hours and we took Riley with us. It was love at first sight, a 3 year old female, spayed by the breeder when the dog was returned. We endured three more trips there and a home visit for us. Actually we're happy they confirmed our vet status, and did a thorough home check. They gave us a packet the size of a phonebook, including all the vet records for the dog and pictures from the time it was little. We named her Lucy Too. It was close to the name she was used to and seemed to fit her. She is smaller than I had thought she would be. About 110 and in wonderful shape. A foreclosure situation, the breeder had taken her back 6 months ago and was giving the family time to find another place where they could keep her. When we came along the former owner was happy to know the "baby" was in a family for the rest of her life. She had one litter of puppies at age two, and put Riley in that catagory even though he is up to 65 pounds and lands some pretty hard punches on her. We went from looking for a Beagle, or Lab to getting a Newfie. It's all about keeping an open mind and taking your time. She is all black and loves the world, i's like a long haired lab. Pictures will be coming soon.
Volunteer was ready to negotiate the adoption fee, she's experienced, and the man said
" make a donation to the shelter of your choice" That was it, would not take a penny. I don't want Lucy Too pictures up here though, if the original owner saw it they might want her back.
Jerry Springer is right on for a lot of these macho dog owners. No wonder the dogs are neurotic. The dogs are more hyperactive and it doesn't take much to push them over the edge. It is a problem of not being socialized or treated with dignity. It used to be a pickup full of labs, now it is pitbulls, the owner thinking is the same. I agree with pet cop that it would be almost impossible to enforce altering the pet, but it would be worth a try. I don't know the legal ramifications, but it would be good if one trip to the pound and off with the goodies. I am sure the owner would scream, but clearly he wasn't in control of his animal. Lets go for it.
I don't think most breeders offer a good life. They're not all good or bad, but we need more checks and balances to keep conditions decent. There are laws on most books to keep an eye out, but nobody has the staff to follow through. Same with pet stores, how do you cover all the areas with limited staff.
I would like to see much stricter requirements to open up a kennel, that would slow the flow somewhat.
We all have opinions, but there is a St. rescue that has rescues and puppies in the same listing; I do believe thee are some people who do it for love of breed, but more are scoundrels.
Are we a zero population blog now ? There doesn't seem to be a happy middle ground. I work in a shelter, I know what animals have a tough time getting adopted and the ones that seem to be bounce backs. I've seen mean cockers and nice pits, but I have seen more fighting pits than fighting cockers. Mix the two and you get a fighting dog with chronic ear problems. There are no perfect dogs.And we need to quit pretending there are. Spay/ neuter is the closest thing we have to hope and if the goal of spay neuter is not zero population what is the plan here? Without some responsible breeders we will not have companion animals. Are we all supposed to go out catch a wolf and start over ?
Sorry if I seem bitter, but I had to walk the list this morning, we rotate, and the only purebred dogs not adoptable were 7 pits and one German Shepherd bite dog.
There is acceptable baggage and there is a time to give up on the animal and help where you can.
I can't say how right on the first commenter is. These problems in most dogs are owner created, but that does not mean they can be solved by a new owner. Sometime the damage is done. I don't know about other shelters but we are not getting the " all american family" in here looking at pits. We are getting punks who cannot pass a home check. I do go online and follow various news blogs. I would tell any director, the reason the number of nasty dogs is up, is because the number of nasty owners is up. Some breeds by disposition are more at risk to become problematic. If a dog can't be adopted get it out of the system, it is cruel to do otherwise. Oh, to sheldon & volunteer, glad you found a dog for Riley. Newfies are nice dogs, we don't get very many ( 2 in 7 years) but they go out as soon as they come in. Generally people don't understand how big they get is the problem but if yours is 4 years old, there will be no surprises.
Good for you with Lucy Too, we ended up with the Mastiffs when our shelter pick went badly. I appreciate the effort some shelters put into getting a dog or cat ready for adoption, but others put them in a kennel and there they stay. becoming less adoptable each day. Does anybody on here volunteer at NHS or do we all do other shelters ? The no kill situation may give a false sense of it's okay to let the animal go since it won't be killed. I saw an injured redtail this morning, on a post along Pyramid, unusual to see one that close to the ground , about 4 feet. I didn't know whether to try to get closer or not. I called NHS, no answer. I think maybe AC could help if it stays there for a while. But a wildlife person would be the best.
Well it is wonderful you got a friend for Riley, please read all you can. Newfies are great, but don't give them the upper hand. Like any large breed and I'm sure mastiff dad would agree they are big and they know it. So be firm.It does sound like you found the perfect friend for your family though.
I wanted to address epc on the pitbull comment. Years ago, think 60's a pitpull was dumped on our farm. We had never seen one, looked through the AKC book and all we decided was it must be a stunted great dane. We didn't know what the heck it was. Growing up I was exposed to dog fighting and I hated it. But these were street dogs, so not all areas had this breed around. Or the cracker folk were to poor to buy one. Now my understanding is, Florida is crawling with them. But Dianne Jessup says it best, she is one of the most dedicated Pit people I know, "failure to get rid of the bad seed in pitbulls is going to be the final downfall of the breed." And, which side refused to use the education program AC or NHS ?
Call me Mom !
Shel has given our news, Lucy Too is perfect. This doesn't mean we are done looking after the animals however. I was wondering if pet cop knew when it changed into pitbulls as the predominate breed ? Did that come with no kill too ?
We had adopted Lucy from a shelter when we lived in Sac, but we just went there found the dog and left. That was before no kill I'm sure. It would have been over 10 years ago, thats why when we went looking for another pup we got suprised. It is now certain that Riley has some pit in him, so we are doing the responsible thing and not going to put him in a lot of high risk situations. For his own protection he will not go to the dog park, he has Lucytoo as a playmate now. It seems from SPCA that the trouble starts when they mature.
I didn't know any better, but now I really don't like it when I see a group of dogs racing at my dog. All the dogsitter types are taking groups of dogs to the park to make money. They don't own the dogs or know anything about them. The people we got LucyToo from requested no dog parks. If someones little dog gets hurt it is the big one that takes the blame, and Newfie's do play rough. I heard from a friend who still volunteers that the shelters are hurting for funds. Not surprising, everyone is tight. This is the time to make every dollar count and asking for toys and non essentials says the shelter is not in touch.
My understanding is that blogger is dropping posts. Oreo apologizes, but has no control. It has happened to us, we work on a good long post and it just disappears. Greta if you will try again later we would love your story. From what you said in your email it is a new twist on overpopulation.
Third and final attempt at getting this post up. I had penned a long account of the funny things leading up to this " solution" and now we are down to bare facts.
While covering the counter yesterday a youngish gent came up and asked for proof of overpopulation. He had read a book that said there was none. I called up another volunteer to provide him a tour which he found enlightening. It did appear to him there were to many animals. We spent a good two hours going over all the reasons he didn't believe in neutering the family pet. the rights of both animal and human companion were being violated. It was invasive, and could cause side effects later in life. Speaking as a retired vet I feel the good outweighs the bad, paws down; but I held my voice. His solution was unique. He felt strongly that there were many homosexual animals, and in our ignorance we discouraged same sex mating behavior. If this behavior were encouraged it would offer the pet satisfaction, avoid the surgery and surely prevent litters. Both animal and owners/guardians would benefit. If you think you have heard all the voices out there, keep listening. Only in my hometown.
Gret: Is this young man the RGJ dog blogger's brother? Sounds just like the crap he and his minions espouse on the blogs. I do hate it when people try to claim that animals have human likes, dislikes, qualities, feelings, "rights" etc. Dude definitely doesn't know anything about dogs and their behavior or he wouldn't say such outrageously stupid things. I hope he didn't/doesn't get or have a dog.
What's the name of this book?
Let me start with an apology to blogger. I was trying to post here using my website gret.the.vet.ret, very sorry if I caused Oreo unecessary work. I only tried to do it now and caught myself. I have tried to update a few times on my blog and perhaps I was doing it wrong there as well.
I did ask the name of the book, he couldn't recall it. But he was firmly against Caesar Milan, and argued that humping was misguided sexual urges. Only in the Bay area; or Boston would that sell. A saga of Teddy the transgendered lab mix. They are all lab mixes you know.
Don't want to be insensitive but really, a terrible injustice and a good source of dog fights. Stupid people, and yes I did give him as much information as I could without stepping into the role of teaching medicine. I am there to answer the phones and help with intake. The adoption counselers are resource guarding. He assured me I had no idea what was going on in a dogs mind. I thought I had a better idea than he. What is the English word for humanizing ? Right on the tip of my tougue in German. Yes the Reno dog blogger does it too. Credits them with human traits and thought processes.
Living in California I have gay friends, and I don't have any discomfort with it, but dogs do not become gay. I have read a couple of works indicating the author believed her male dog would masturbate. I have no experience in 35 plus years that supports the claim. The young man and his partner were thinking of getting a small dog and I'm sure they would provide a good home, after our little chat.
I recomended " One At A Time' and he was going to the bookstore to find it. That's what we need by God, pre- adoption counseling, like the Catholic Church used to make couples getting married go thru. No adoptions on the first pass, pick a pet, come back in a week. Sounds good to me. Pixie is very pleased for the rehomed Newfie, is it realted to Oreo's siblings?
OMW we are breaking rules now ! That is an interesting take on animal husbandry. I am surprised he left out the one about brittle bones . That was more old saws than I have in the storage shed.
I agree a waiting period of 72 hours would be good. Give the adopter time to be sure and offer amnesty if they change their mind. No sorrowful looks or speeches, offer good words for being truthful, before they take the dog. I think if we quit pressuring people into impulse animals, it would be slow at the start; but they would have lasting homes. How long have Sheldon & spouse been looking ? I know it has been a few weeks at least. I don't know if Lucy Too is related to my guys. I didn't facilitate the process. It would be nice if Priss's story helped, but I haven't heard that. I don't want to either. Oreo has her place and it isn't an adoption facility. A matchmaker perhaps...But seriously Greta, I meet people at the park and we exchange greetings and sometimes if they seem interested a website. We never get around to actually going to the park or hanging out at Starbucks. Even though many on the blog have come from dog park meetings we are not a " group"...I think the Reno blogger gets to emeshed in other peoples business and Oreo doesn't want to do that. Did anybody else see the Churchill gang is rescuing a horse ? yep, it's on the other blog.
I never knew that so many labs ended up in shelters There is a problem with owners of this breed. The dogs are left in the back yard barking and digging and then if there is a complaint the dog gets ditched. Labs are not stuffed toys, they are hunting dogs. People and action are in their DNA so if ignored they would get into trouble.
I wonder what the adoption sucess rate for them is, it seems they would adapt quickly to a loving home. I know they are bred far to often and would fall into the everybody wants a puppy from Jake model. All a lab has to do is find a dead duck and he is almost a champion to many hunters. Many think being a family dog ruins the hunting ability and that is not true at all. All dogs need a well rounded life to come to the complete animal they were meant to be. There were some labs at NHS a time back, but I never look at the new set up. Lab mixes are almost always a euphenism for pit mix and I am pleased that Sheldon is going to raise and treat his dog like a strong breed. I don't want the end of Pitbulls, but I don't want a Pitbull Nation either.
We are a pitbull sheltering system right now. It is only going to get worse with the insanity going through government currently. When you pawn off responsibility to a 501 c to save a couple of bucks, they take shortcuts to further expand the number of animals they can keep. All the services are dropped, and the agency becomes a caricature of what a care and control was designed to be.
Greta's tale would be hilarious except it's so true. Visulize the reaction of the dog on the receiving end of unwanted advances. No more vicious dogs only misunderstood.
I have read all the Maddies Fund site, slogged through the literature. I still don't understand the thinking behind the movement; they are not really a movement they fund the movement and thus become a part of the problem ? Step two of the plan, as I read it, was aafter placing healthy animals they would start in on the old and sick.That was discussed at SPCA, but somehow, Step one got missed, in the search for Maddies Money, they lumped every animal in together, so sick animals linger while healthy ones die. When you get more funding for placing sick animals, that is what you are going to do, if running at a loss.. This is a national tragedy, and disgrace. Continued monitoring of such sites is in the best interest of the animals, and has become almost a dailey activity for Shel and me, we know Oreo can't do it all. Now he is crying foul and saying there is a smear campaign by some woman.
Fortunately Lucy 2 fits through Rileys door, and I bet our power bill is off the chart, they race in and out all day. It is nice to see them so happy, and she is the perfect foil for Rileys bounding and ramming. He can't budge her. To the blog in general, we don't know if she is related to Burley Dog and Priss, they both have white and she is all black. These people live on a farm in the rural area, and are professional. You can see everything is immaculate and the dogs are all brushed. Four of them are retired and live in the house. Lucy 2 obviously had a good life while living with her first family. she knows all the things a well handled dog would. She does "load, wipe your feet, let me dry your face, go to bed ( for while you are eating if she begs ) She would have lost all that in a shelter, or we wouldn't have known it.
Mr. Winograd would box her up for a few years because she is a purebred she would get recylcled more. Big breeds are needing of more attention, and if the owner had not given up volumes of information we would not have been ready. Hi back to Pixie, and lets rejoice for rehomed animals.
Very intersting Oreo. When you put in Pitbulls the percentage of purebred goes up dramatically. I had to check it myself. So that is how they are getting those numbers. For starters pitbulls are not a registered breed and there is no accurate way to confirm their heritage. That doesn't mean they are not nice dogs and worth finding a home for, but what is next laberdoodles? If the next president thinks they're a breed we're in trouble.
There is no way to regulate what people breed, nor what they buy. The problem I am seeing with some of these crosses is, the worst of both breeds come forward. Shepherd & Collie, friend for life. Shepherd & Rottie, you mix herding with protection and you are a lawsuit waiting to happen. So, those of us in shelters are often flying blind in what information to give the adopter. "It's a dog" I wish we could provide a packet, but half the time the owners lie to us, or don't know. I do know one thing, if we continue to adopt out dogs that are marginal, we are going to lose our credibily as a good source for pets. We took in a Sheltie, the owner said it bit her grandaughter in the face. She gave several reasons, none of which she believed, for why it was a solo incident. One of our volunteers is a tiny asian girl. We use her as one of our kid testing tools, while brushing the Sheltie she got bit in the face. We have over 60 dogs right now who don't bite, looking for a home. No brainer. I am not putting out any animal that bites doesn't matter what breed it is. We don't make excuses for why a dog bites and at the rate of intake we deal with for our staff and volunteers, we are not a permanect home for temperment disorder dogs. There are to many nice ones being put down.
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