Thanks to Georgia Bear for giving me a marvelous topic to share with you. Her comment is under the piece ( below ) discussing posting pictures online. We all know from YB that things can get ugly when the right people fall into the mix. Her question was " how much is to much" on the history of the dog. Good topic, and becoming even more relevant daily with the increased use of FB by rescues and shelters.
My experience from NHS is that 90% of what they post was designed to manipulate the adopting public, and if creating a sense of outrage would get the dog out the door, that was the tack they took.. That generally draws interest from the sickest type of adopter unfortunately. Oreo wrote a good story on "looking for a pet or saving a life ? and it addressed some of the marketing tactics being used today. The case referenced by GB was a widower needed to place his deceased wifes dog, the dog had never liked him, and I could see where that would make the person and the dog miserable. Apparently that opened the floodgates of opinion and let the loonies loose to vent.. So, how much is to much.? At NHS they would have draped flowers, and raved on ad infinitum, in Sac we take a more sensible approach. Really what is important ? Is the status of the owner the issue, or the dog ?
In our area the placement ad would have read, description, behavior, health.
Ex: Buffy is a 2 year old neutered male pitbull mix, his current weight is 60 pounds.. We think he's through growing. Buffy is exuberant, he loves to play and is learning the leash . He has a happy outlook, but can be to rowdy for young children. Buffy is very interested in meeting all people, but needs to be on a leash until he learns not to jump. Buffy holds his eliminations until he gets out of his kennel, if taken out twice a day. Buffy has his shots and is ready to go to his new home.
From my view, which I picked up from Oreo, it doesn't matter if Buffy grew up with kids, because he didn't grow up with your kids. Same with cats and door to door salesman. the dog will develop new living skills in your home. Even potty training that was flawless before can go away, or submissive peeing that caused the dog to be rehomed may go away in a one dog household.
Good luck and keep it clean and honest..
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21 comments:
Hey Chap, I do think there is room for positive history. Not housebreaking, I agree with you there, but if the dog has been kept indoors that should be mentioned. Same is true with heavy coated dogs guess what breed I'm thinking ? Something like "Burley was a housedog but preferred to sleep outside when in full coat."
We just need to avoid the implicatation that because it had been kept in the house there were no bad habits. I have one friend who comes in every day to piddle, I wouldn't do that, but she does...As far as writing doesn't get along with kids, I don't believe in adopting out aggressive dogs, period. Kids are everywhere, and they are kids, they will go where they aren't invitd or expected. There is no way to keep a dog away from kids, I've seen way to many missteps to be swayed away from that.
I know some small breed rescues will agree to disagree, but that's my take. Had a case last year where a Cocker took off half a toddlers face, owner went on holiday and the housesitter brought her grandchild over one day. You cannot pad the dogs world, sooner or later " truth will out" My Mom was crazy about " Pooker dogs" they were Manchester crosses or Min-Pin wannabees, all were named " Pooker" and all did well with kids, she taught them to be. Dogs bite kids because they can, not because they are little.
Chap, was that the black cocker we adopted out about 6 times that went to foster ? That was one mean dog. He finally got put up online as ABSOLUTELY NO KIDS UNDER 16. Then he really tore up a 3 year old. That poor dog had rotten teeth and was in pain all the time. I always thought of him as another shining NHS save:(
I know the SPCA wouldn't transfer him to there because of his aggression issues.
Spouse calls it the "little dogs can't really hurt" mentality. I know that not placing dogs with aggression issues would sure take the grin off a no kill statiticians face. We are placing dogs that I know for a fact would have been pts 10 years ago, and they should have been. Sorry, but it's true.
There are plenty of cases out there of small dogs maiming and even killing humans. I agree that aggressive dogs should not be placed, and despite the fact that even some of our own volunteers couldn't handle making that decision, we do euthanize people-aggressive dogs that come into our rescue. We do not have a "one free bite" policy.
Some of our dogs just aren't good with kids. It's probably not that I see them as a bite risk around kids but just that kids make them nervous or uncomfortable. Chances are, they feel the same way about rowdy college students. What we encounter more often than the kid problem is dogs that are afraid of men (and in one case, women). We base our adoption decisions on what we know about the dog from living with him/her and asking adopters a lot of questions about their lifestyles. There was one foster dog last year who was a hellion while we had him, yet he's thriving in his adoptive home ... the key has been that they walk or hike several miles every day unless there's a blizzard and convert the garage into a doggy game room when the weather gets really bad.
All of this kind of information we share on Petfinder, Facebook or anywhere else we post the dogs. We generally don't say much at all about the previous owners unless it goes towards the personality of the dog (e.g., Blue's owners walked him 2 miles a day for the past 3 years, so Blue will expect his new family to do the same.)
At the SPCA we are placing dogs we know will
" nip" at people, I disagree with that. I do like that we don't smear the previous owner like NHS does. We don't even say the dog came from a neglect case, we list the dogs behavior as a result of that lifestyle, but not the lifestyle.
Something like, Fido will not do well with free feeding, it goes overboard. Good piece Chap.
Thanks for the post Chap! I am trying to form a plan on how to address it with the admin of the page. I am just not sure what is the most effective way to do it. I hate to have this attitude, but I not sure anything will change their approach. This group has some members that are also active with YB in the Memphis groups. I think (mind you I am not 100% positive) that this group was formed by those asked to no longer volunteer at MAS. They found my local shelter, an understaffed rural county pound, where they could come in and set up their own rules. They have an attitude of "bringing knowledge to us poor country folks"! Got any ideas on how to rationally reason with that kind of crowd?:) I am trying the "give them enough rope" approach!
@ Oreo, I couldn't agree more with you on aggressive dogs and kids. We have no children at our house, but we have the expectation from our dogs that they are better with children than "family" dogs. We have 9 nieces & nephews. It is our job to socialize the dogs to the point that they are ok with the occasional visit. We were talking just the other day about a woman that said she had to "secure" her dogs before her grandchildren came to visit. That is just a tragedy waiting to happen. I understand that situation was also an adoption listed as no children under 16.
So, GB your shelter has been taken hostage by the No Kill missionaries who want to educate the great unwashed ? Hope that isn't to " churchy" for this crowd :) I doubt there is any nice way to rid yourself of the YB folk, they are so deep into the Nathan thing they can't be reasoned with. The Columbus Ga. Mayor did it best, "thanks but no thanks. " You saw Shirley's reaction to that, a woman scorned and all. Are you social with the admin ? That would be a start. You are right if they are MAS rejects they will hold their cross very high. Please keep us posted. If you could "not for publication " me the page name I could take a look.
@ GeorgiaBear I would love to chat with you, could you nfp me at Advice From Oreo, I looked at several different shelter pages and would like to understand more. If one knows what names to Google it comes right up. Have you an email you might care to share ?
I think the FB thing is highjacked by the crazy train people. I know with MAS they have to be picked off like ants at a picnic. I think Jeane has a good idea, let them rant. Nobody likes to be torn apart, but really what can they do ? I have been studying this for a while and it seems like once you tell them to take a jump they moan a little but they go away. Memphis mistake was talking to them. Just sayn'
If we get technical I think many of us manipulate the past of a dog. If I pull a dog named Felon, or Badass; it tells me a great deal about the previous owners, but not much about the dog. In some cases the dog may be surrendered or abandoned because it did NOT live up to it's name. You wouldn't beleve some of the stuff I see on Petfinder, owner is in jail, that's a class thing to put online. Divorce while a frequent reason serves no purpose in being mentioned. When I do change a dogs name I do it slowly, working the new name into the routine. I do tell the new owner the name was changed because it didn't match the dogs personality, and ask them to wait a while before changing it again.
In our part of the country the turnover rate is pretty high. We have a 72 hour hold time and limit dogs to one per kennel. I'm sure we could spin a tale and push some out the door, but to often they would be right back. People may adopt on a sob story, that will not make them keep a dog or cat who is dysfunctional. It was said earlier, give a brief description with weight and how the dog behaves, health issues should be mentioned too.
Whether I agree with the person turning the dog in or not, putting their life online is not my business. I am seeing a lot of stuff on FB that doesn't belong there. Even if sudden allergies are a problem, I never believe that one, has nothing to do with the dog.
Amen Kirsten. The No Kill FB pages are the worst. I am not a fan of YB although I do read it just to see what the strange ones are up to.
Oreo thinks that if Wordpress were to receive a complaint showing where she is obstructing a government agency, or slandering somebody out of the living they are trying to make, Wordpress would shut her down. I think so too.
FB is out of control. I see people getting slammed on there all the time. It's not about the animals at all anymore. Petfinder or Pet harbor cut down on the backstabbing.
Okay, now I think I have it. Some bloggers are as bad as the FB psychos. What has happened to complete sentences ? The come back for me on the blogs I follow is civility. You and Oreo are my favorites for this type of writing. I enjoy the agility training blogs too, we need to think before reacting. If a group has a FB page, there should be a monitor that checks in several times a day to stop the bad guys.
@ Chap & Kirsten, YB should be closed down but look how awful Winograd is. He says inflamatory garbage all the time. I think his Flash Mob tactic is abuse of the internet. People think that FB stops the flaming, but people just creat false identities. On you and Oreo we seem to be a core group of commenters, but we don't attack. We share ideas and plans for sucess. I have been coming for a couple of years and this is the first comment I've made. I feel very much a part of a movement to put compassion first, this is a safe place to do that. I appreciate you guys giving us a forum. Some places are so mean you don't stay to read.
I agree that FB is out of control. Just this week there were several of the breed I rescue in my local shelter. They were included in an email that went out to rescue partners, and the people riding the crazy train immediately jumped to crosspost them all over FB.
The situation devolved into the crossposter's ranting that all the rescues just throw up road blocks like saying we have no more foster space and that we can't pull for strangers in another state because we don't have the funds to pay the bills to vet and board this dog when those far-flung "sponsors" fail to pay up. Now, mind you, this crossposter doesn't offer to go in and adopt the dog herself and foster temporarily for one of these out of state parties because she's already got a house full of dogs and no space for another. But I am the root of all evil because I'm not able to help. In fact, if I cared at all (according to what she wrote), I would forego buying the meds that keep my 3 special needs dogs alive so that I could pull a dog that I don't have any space for and who may not even be a legitimate rescuer and (in my experience) almost certainly won't ever follow through with getting the dog.
This crossposter presents herself as an expert on this shelter, yet she doesn't know what the adoption fee is, what hours the building is open to the public or that the shelter has been taking credit/debit cards for at least a year. She'll also tell you that it was PETA who came here last year to help with the housing of pets for evacuees from last year's floods. Oh, and not to forget this doozy: she says it was announced last month "THE INVESTIGATION PROVED THERE IS A DOG FIGHTING RING WITHIN THE SHELTER." Last I checked proving something generally required verifiable evidence, and vague references made anonymously that don't name specific people do not constitute "proof".
So fast forward 3 days to when I finally have time to finish typing this, and she's now taking credit for saving these dogs even though 2 were adoptions I facilitated and the third was a rescue pull (and we'll overlook the fact that the "rescue" doesn't actually intake the dogs they have pulled).
Welome Redhead, and thanks for posting this. A pet peeve I have,and get posts on frequently is the crossposter who is very enthusiastic, but has no idea what they are talking about. There are allegations of dog fighting in Los Angeles shelters, but it's just since they went sort of " no kill" and they put to many dogs in the kennel. When you do that with pitbulls it gets ugly. I think the Memphis shelter, I don't know if you're from that region, but the stuff in 2009 was under Ernie Alexander. He was a No Kill from Arizona that held on to dogs to long and let conditions deteriorate. He did the same thing in AZ, and problably is where he landed now. The social media comes with a burden of responsible posting and that is lost on many.
@ Tracy, It's all about drama and petty turf wars.
It quit being about the animals for the No Killers a long time ago. I read everything I can on the supposed No Kill shelters because this is where I see the pressure on Rescues coming from. There are to many dogs and not enough homes; homes are what we are supposed to be about. Shifting from shelter to rescue to foster to transport to different rescue, to foster. It's nuts, just sayin'
@ Redhair girl, welcome. You may also like a blog called Advice From Oreo. I volunteer for an SPCA and we have had to crack down on the crossposters. They are bringing traffic we don't need. Fruitloops ( is that okay Chap ? ) coming out of cracks in the floor to SAVE a dog. Now they don't have anyplace to keep it or time to train it, but they want it.
I don't know how you can stop them, but I have been thinking about asking Oreo if there is a way the pictures can be watermarked. We get loonies from California wanting to save our dogs and we have some " rescue" up here bringing intact, non imunized dogs up from L.A.
Is it legegal for people to move dogs around without paperwork ?
Hi Chap, I got an account and I am ready for the world. I wss supposed to morph into a butterfly, but I've always done things backwards.
The reason I was so slow wading into this was my bad experience with YB. That doesn't mean I'm new to aniamal caring. There is a reason we skulk around under aliases, these people are crazy. We are off topic a little bit, but I think we are discussing how much is to much. I like the way FOMAS does it, and I don't know the admin of that page well. It's straight to the point and doesn't put a spin on the pet. I visit several other pages that do a good job of not "selling" the dog or cat. Some are bad though, like Shirley they try to personalize every animal as if they know what the animal is thinking. Thats a turnoff for me. It's a dog, it needs a home, don't have it writing peotry or pining for a home it never had. Put the information out there and let the public decide if they have a place for it in their lives.
@ morphed welcome back, this has been a day for old friends to drop by. I like your picture. Oreo and I were talking today about the pressure to adopt and the various forces that be putting animals in shopping malls. I received an nfp that was good, but anonymous and they feared that both the internet and the volunteer would be cast aside if things don't lighten up from the zealots.
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